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Please identify this RWS clone
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 Posted: Mon Sep 14th, 2009 05:01 pm
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iard
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Hello, this is my first post here.

I was trying to identify this RWS clone, but without any luck so far, and someone suggested that I should ask here.
The deck is newly published in Romania, along with a large book, 208 pages, with the same pictures from the cards. The publisher house provides a print-on-demand service. The book does not appear on the publisher's site.

I scanned some of the cards and posted them here:
http://tinypic.com/iard

Some of the things that puzzled me:
- an older man (gray hair and gray beard) on the two of wands
- Knight of Swords depicted charging through a blizzard, snowflakes are visible
The back of the cards is plain shiny golden.
No box for the deck, no author mentioned on the book, title translates as  "Tarot from A to Z"

When I'll identify the author of the cards, I'll remove all of them from that site, in order to avoid any copyright issues.

Thank you for your time!

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 Posted: Mon Sep 14th, 2009 06:34 pm
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rylla
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Hi Iard,

WELCOME TO THE FORUM!

I'm not so sure what you meant by "ID" this RWS clone, since it seems to me that you did a pretty good job of identifying it yourself!

And, i don't think there is much to identify on these decks anyways!  This is an RWS clone, printed in Romania. I have been in Romania this summer, and I've seen this one (there was no box just covered with a plastic wrap - the book and the cards). I've also seen ANOTHER RWS clone, very much alike as this one! A Golden Dawn Magical tarot have also been printed in Romania. I have no idea how they do it with the copyright, but it seems that they are printing out RWS or other decks with only slight modifications from the original deck. The only reason for this changes could be copyright - I guess - they do not seem to bring any real value to the Tarot.

rylla


Oh! and BTW, it might not be any author for the cards:-)  !!! in sense that I wouldn't be surprised if no one would be named as such!

 

 

Last edited on Mon Sep 14th, 2009 06:43 pm by rylla

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 Posted: Mon Sep 14th, 2009 08:49 pm
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iard
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Thank you, rylla

I buy books and decks published here, in Romania, since 1994 (Hajo Banzhaf - Das Arbeitsbuch zum Tarot - accompanied by a mediocre RWS deck). To this day, I never saw a book like this one, 208 pages, without an author.
I wanted to know if anyone has seen this deck published in another country, and under what name, who was the designer, or the author of the book. But, as you said, we may never know...

The book also seems compiled from different sources. A short introduction, history of tarot, a lot of spreads, each card with meanings, description, etc.
The one thing I did not previously encountered in other books is the enumeration and presentation of symbols from the cards, their meaning and on what cards they appear, like: Snake - renewal, rebirth, development; demands that we are more flexible and adaptable - Magician, Lovers, Wheel of Fortune, 7 of Cups.

Regarding copyright, at least in the movies, music, books, and partially in the software industry, things are going much better than a few years ago... despite the fact that, for instance, a imported Thoth tarot deck from Urania Verlag is about 1/3 of the minimal wage for a month's work, or a license for Windows is more than half a month...

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 Posted: Mon Sep 14th, 2009 09:10 pm
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rylla
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Oh, I just noticed now that you are from Romania...

Are you familiar with the Tarotul Visurilor (Romanian Dream Tarot) by Tamara? THAT is an original and beautiful deck. And now she has another deck, unpublished as far as I know - do you have any info if it's going to be published or how she could be contacted? 

 http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/dreams-tamara/

 

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 Posted: Mon Sep 14th, 2009 09:29 pm
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iard
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The Dreams Tarot is an unpublished deck, based on dream imagery and illustrated in a surrealist, photo-collage style. The artist, Tamara, also created a 78-card Romanian-published deck called the Tarotul Visurilor.
Dream = Vis
So I suspect that the unpublished deck is a translation of her "Tarotul Visurilor".
Her name is Tamara Brumaru, the book and the the deck seem to be still available.
I don't have them, not my type.
No contact details for her, but I'll ask a few people that might know more from a divination forum here, and I'll let you know if I find anything.

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 Posted: Tue Sep 15th, 2009 12:22 am
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rylla
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Thank you Iard.

Tarotul Visurilor is OOP for sure (contacted polirom), and even if it's listed on some websites, when I called them it turned out they did not have it anymore. Anyway, I have this deck.

But I would really like to have her second collage deck too, if it ever going to be published.  Please let me know if you ever see it in stores!

rylla 

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 Posted: Tue Sep 15th, 2009 05:51 am
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iard
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I think it's more likely to be published in other country, because on Polirom's site it says that she's now living in the USA.
They also say that Eileen Connolly's book (published here in 2005) is not available anymore, and I got one copy from them just last month, at about 1/4 of the retail price. Maybe it was the last one...
"So I say to you, [...] seek, and you will find"

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 Posted: Wed Sep 23rd, 2009 06:03 pm
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Kimber
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iard wrote: Her name is Tamara Brumaru, the book and the the deck seem to be still available.
No contact details for her, but I'll ask a few people that might know more from a divination forum here, and I'll let you know if I find anything.



Rylla, I think you may be referring to Tamara's Visionary Tarot.  Here's the link:

http://www.visionarytarot.info
:c
 

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 Posted: Wed Sep 23rd, 2009 10:16 pm
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rylla
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Thank you, I might as well have been looking for that one and I appreciate your post - but actually I am refering to:

http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/dreams-tamara/

It looks like a collage deck.

rylla

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 Posted: Wed Sep 23rd, 2009 10:33 pm
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skad1
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rylla wrote: Thank you, I might as well have been looking for that one and I appreciate your post - but actually I am refering to:

http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/dreams-tamara/

It looks like a collage deck.

rylla


Wow, That is a strong deck. 

I will definitely be watching for more info, as I'd love a copy too!

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 Posted: Wed Sep 23rd, 2009 11:34 pm
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Kimber
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rylla wrote: Thank you, I might as well have been looking for that one and I appreciate your post - but actually I am refering to:

http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/dreams-tamara/

It looks like a collage deck.

rylla

Wow!!! Have you tried contacting her directly on the Visionary site? I'd be interested to know what sge has to say about it.

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 Posted: Thu Sep 24th, 2009 12:16 am
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skad1
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Kimber wrote:
Wow!!! Have you tried contacting her directly on the Visionary site? I'd be interested to know what sge has to say about it.

Sheesh, what an idea!   :f   :cl 

Ok, I emailed her, I hope I hear back.

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 Posted: Sun Jan 31st, 2010 01:35 pm
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Kimber
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In keeping with the thread title, here's some scans of a RWS knockoff that I purchased on Ebay from a seller in Canada.

 

 

Attachment: Scan_Pic0001.jpg (Downloaded 173 times)

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 Posted: Sun Jan 31st, 2010 01:39 pm
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Kimber
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Back of cards.

Attachment: Scan_Pic0002.jpg (Downloaded 173 times)

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 Posted: Sun Jan 31st, 2010 01:40 pm
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Kimber
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Some sample cards. Note the detail in the borders of the majors.

Attachment: Scan_Pic0003Resized.jpg (Downloaded 172 times)

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 Posted: Sun Jan 31st, 2010 01:46 pm
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Kimber
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And finally, the box. The deck may still be available from the web site shown; I purchased mine last year for about $5.

Attachment: Scan_Pic0004Resized.jpg (Downloaded 173 times)

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 Posted: Sun Jan 31st, 2010 10:22 pm
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gregory
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I have that somewhere; I recognise the box. As to the one iard posted - I now have that too - from Romania - and buying THAT was a BITCH; I had to get help.... they ONLY accept bank transfers... Iard is - I think - going to try and buy in bulk and re-sell on ebay....

Last edited on Mon Feb 1st, 2010 10:13 am by gregory

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 Posted: Mon Feb 1st, 2010 12:16 am
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missy
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rylla wrote:
Thank you, I might as well have been looking for that one and I appreciate your post - but actually I am refering to:

http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/dreams-tamara/

It looks like a collage deck.

rylla


Oh my goodness, that is one gorgeous deck!

I wish Ric at Lo Scarabeo would pick that one up.

Beautiful!

Has anyone heard anything from the artist?

:kt

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 Posted: Mon Feb 1st, 2010 12:58 am
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Kimber
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She has a website where she is currently taking orders for her handmade Visionary Tarot, so I imagine she'd be easy enough to contact. She's from Romania, but lives in the US. She is also the creator of the Romanian Dreams Tarot (Tarot Visiolur)(sp?), another collage deck.

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 Posted: Mon Feb 1st, 2010 02:42 am
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missy
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I have sent her an email.

What a beautiful deck! If I hear something, I'll post.

I've also given her the link to this thread.

:kt

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 Posted: Mon Feb 1st, 2010 10:45 am
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gregory
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And back to the deck Kimber asked about - it's the one that several of us on AT decided to call the "Edith Waite" - an ebay seller called it that.... claiming that was the name of the artist....

A thread:

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=121009

Someone says (in the archives) that it was published by Sirio - but mine wasn't !

The original one in iard's post is available from Romania - but it is a pain to buy - did I say ? (I am still recovering, and thanks to someone here for your help; you know who you are !)

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 Posted: Mon Feb 1st, 2010 02:24 pm
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rylla
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Kimber wrote: She has a website where she is currently taking orders for her handmade Visionary Tarot, so I imagine she'd be easy enough to contact. She's from Romania, but lives in the US. She is also the creator of the Romanian Dreams Tarot (Tarot Visiolur)(sp?), another collage deck.

I believe the author of Visionary tarot is not the same with the author of ROmanian Dream tarot and Dream Tarot posted on aeclectic. Visionary is by Tamara Nikolic (or something like that) while Romanian Dream is by Tamara Brumaru (or something like that) (I'll look it up and edit if incorrect).

So http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/dreams-tamara/

is not made by Tamara who lives in USA I guess

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 Posted: Mon Feb 1st, 2010 02:39 pm
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gregory
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According to AT, the same person did Visurilor as has done the Dreams; I don't know about the Visionary, but they certainly don't look at all the same style ! (and the price of that one is OUCHish anyway !)

The email for the Dreams gives her last name as Oliver.

Last edited on Mon Feb 1st, 2010 02:40 pm by gregory

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 Posted: Mon Feb 1st, 2010 02:48 pm
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rylla
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Yes Gregory, you are right! I did some more digging, just about to post it when I saw yours. Tamara Brumaru DID move to California, and there is an article in Romanian it says she was signing her paintings as Tamara Pintilie, "iar fotografiile Tamara Oliver" (and her photos as Tamara Oliver). Thanks for clearing this! as I just wanted to get to the author of Dream Tarot posted on aeclectic, as I like it. I'll try to contact her as well. Let you know.

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 Posted: Mon Feb 1st, 2010 06:12 pm
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missy
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Rather embarrassing, as I contacted the wrong Tamara immediately after posting the above.:f

So I hope someone can post here when they reach the correct Tamara. Hopefully rylla can reach her.

:kt

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 Posted: Mon Feb 1st, 2010 06:18 pm
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gregory
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Interesting. Who DID you contact ? the one who did the strange bright one - the Visionary ?

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 Posted: Mon Feb 1st, 2010 06:20 pm
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missy
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gregory wrote:
Interesting. Who DID you contact ? the one who did the strange bright one - the Visionary ?


Yes. I think that was the only Tamara we were discussing at the time ... embarrassing! :cl Oh well.

:kt

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 Posted: Mon Feb 1st, 2010 07:33 pm
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rylla
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Gregory (I believe) and me NOW (sorry for creating confusion - I didn't realize at first that Visionary and ROmanian dream and Dream are created by the same author)think that she (Visionary Tarot) might be the right one to contact.

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 Posted: Mon Feb 1st, 2010 07:46 pm
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gregory
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She did the Visionary as well ? That DOES surprise me.....

I went by a link on AT..... we shall see....

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 Posted: Mon Feb 1st, 2010 08:07 pm
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rylla
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According to Kimber. And sorry I wasn't reading your post careful enough and I thought that you mean the same. Still not convinced. It could be though (the different styles are confusing right?). Maybe Kimber knows for sure.

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 Posted: Mon Feb 1st, 2010 09:30 pm
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missy
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Not the same Tamara. There are two Tamaras.

Email received from Tamara Nikolic:

Hello again,

I just went to the discussion sites and realized that there has been a mix up in names.
I am Tamara Nikolic, the author of the Visionary Tarot set. My site is http://www.visionarytarot.info
and my art blog is http://www.tamaranikolic.blogspot.com and i live in New York.

Anyway, it was nice talking to you!

Stay Well
Tamara

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 Posted: Mon Feb 1st, 2010 09:31 pm
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missy
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To be clear:

Tamara Nikolic is NOT the author of:

http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/dreams-tamara/

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 Posted: Mon Feb 1st, 2010 09:38 pm
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gregory
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I THOUGHT the styles were too TOO different.

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 Posted: Mon Feb 1st, 2010 11:06 pm
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Kimber
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missy wrote: To be clear:

Tamara Nikolic is NOT the author of:

http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/dreams-tamara/

Who knew Tamara was such a popular name in Romania?? :z

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 Posted: Tue Feb 2nd, 2010 07:28 am
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iard
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Kimber wrote: missy wrote: To be clear:

Tamara Nikolic is NOT the author of:

http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/dreams-tamara/

Who knew Tamara was such a popular name in Romania?? :z

This thread is soo funny...

Let's start with the NOT's:
Tamara is not a very popular name in Romania.
Nikolic is not a Romanian name at all (it's probably Serbian)

Tamara Brumaru was a highschool teacher in Iasi, Romania. She was a published poet and she had a regular column in "Monitorul de duminica" (Sunday Monitor) about Tarot, alchemy, talismans and dreams.
Her book, "Tarotul Visurilor" (Tarot of Dreams), the one with the deck from the link above, contains some of those columns.
She now lives in the USA.

As o gossip, to cheer up this thread, here's something from a newspaper:

Her ex-husband, Emil Brumaru, also a poet, wrote what he called "tamarete" (best translated as tamarets) poems dedicated to Tamara. They've met in 1973, when he was 34 and she was 17 and a half. She wrote him a letter after reading one of his poems in a magazine, and he replied. Their correspondence is estimated at 720 letters. He was then a medical doctor and she a highschool student, so he was excluded from the communist party [a dangerous thing to happen to you at that time in Romania - my note] on the ground of "immoral liaisons". They married in 1982, their daughter was 4 years old at that time. In 2004 they divorced.

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 Posted: Fri Feb 5th, 2010 04:20 pm
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rylla
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Yes, I read this too, but would you know what name (last name) is she using now? I could not found it (only reference to what she used to go by), neither where she lives. Neither her contact info. THANKS!

rylla

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 Posted: Fri Feb 5th, 2010 04:39 pm
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gregory
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Her last name is now Oliver, I think. But I don't know where she lives....

Eta - yes indeed; I'm sure this refers to her.....

look at this blog on her ex, the poet Emil Brumaru.

It mentions her name as Oliver about half way down. And says she is now in California.

Last edited on Fri Feb 5th, 2010 05:17 pm by gregory

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 Posted: Sat Feb 6th, 2010 07:01 am
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iard
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Gregory, I was aware of this, but I thought it was too "sexist" to translate it...
It also says that she went to California with a doctoral scholarship, but it doesn't say where exactly.

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 Posted: Sat Feb 6th, 2010 08:53 am
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gregory
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I didn't translate it; I just dug for HER and looked up the words for that bit ! My Romanian is - well, isn't !!!!

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 Posted: Sat Feb 6th, 2010 10:21 am
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iard
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:cl
I thought you used an online translator like this one:
http://www.translator-online.ro/
It's not very accurate, but it works just enough to get the big picture.

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 Posted: Sat Feb 6th, 2010 10:44 am
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gregory
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I don't trust on line translators further than I can throw them (except the Langenberg dictionaries !)

When I was at work some IDIOT was trying to find out an automated way to translate leaflets into all the languages we were supposed to offer, as he objected to paying a translator..... I was furious, but instead of just saying so, I ran some stuff through a Korean translator, to show him. As I said look what you would get. I input:

"Children need to drink plenty of milk"

Then I posted the Korean that came up.

아이들은우유의많음을마실필요가있다

then I translated that back through the same site.

"The children the milk which listens being many, there is a necessity which will drink."

I don't think he ever quite got the point, but it shut him up.

I have just done it again with Urdu,


بچے کو دودھ پینے کے پھلت

and the English that came back was

The children of drinking milk fruitfulness.....


I just looked very carefully at the bit about Tamara !






Last edited on Sat Feb 6th, 2010 10:46 am by gregory

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 Posted: Sat Feb 6th, 2010 11:26 am
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iard
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:gi how nice! Let's try the site above and see what happens...

English: Children need to drink plenty of milk
To Romanian: Copiii trebuie să bea multe de lapte [wrong...]
Back to English: Children should drink more milk [acceptable, isn't it?]

And now let's try something more complex:

English: Children need to drink plenty of milk
To Romanian: Copiii trebuie să bea multe de lapte [wrong...]
Romanian to French: Les enfants doivent boire plus de lait [acceptable, isn't it?]
French to Croatian: Djeca bi trebala piti više mlijeka [beats me... but mlijeka sounds like milk]
Croatian to Greek: Τα παιδιά πρέπει να πίνουν περισσότερο γάλα [no idea...]
Greek to Spanish: Los niños necesitan tomar más leche [acceptable, isn't it?]
And finally back: Children need to drink more milk

The only problem that I can think of was when translating to Romanian, and that was just the point of this site :sd

Thanks for sharing this with me!

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 Posted: Sat Feb 6th, 2010 11:36 am
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gregory
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What a shame..... Clearly this has to do with - um - CULTURAL DIFFERENCES ????

How ODD. When I did it for the idiot at work, I wanted to get to something he could not recognise, which is why I went for a different script ! and when it went BACK....

Giggle. I just ran that sentence into and out of traditional Chinese and got:

When I have been its idiot in the work, I want to have him not to be impossible to approve, is why the matter do I seek help to a different script! And, when it goes back….

With Dutch I got

When I it works for the idiot on did, do not want I to something get he could recognise, what for which I went for a different manuscript!, is and then it ..... returned.....

We are getting OT here.....

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 Posted: Fri Feb 12th, 2010 05:37 am
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Rasa
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I just wanted to chime in about the second Waite-clone shown on the thread,  which some people purchased on Ebay from Canada. (the `Edith Waite`)

I used to live in Edmonton, Alberta, and there were many copies of this deck at some local Dollarama stores (they sell mostly low quality imported goods, from China, India, etc.), for only one dollar per deck!
A lot of them had dinged-up cards though, because they didn`t have any shrink-wrapping, and were in this cheap store where a lot of people were going through the cards while they were on the shelves.

I bought a bunch of them, and gave them away to other people regularly until I ran out. A number of friends also stocked up on them and gave them away. I am not sure if they are still available or not; or if the stores got in more after they sold...

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