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Cartomanzia 184 (Modiano)~ questions
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 Posted: Mon Jun 1st, 2009 08:49 pm
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lunakasha
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I'm hoping that some of the "hardcore" collectors here can help me with this. :?

I could not find a copyright date anywhere, but I have an Italian version of the Cagliostro/Cartomanzia 184.

The box is gray on the edges and has a picture of a winged lion on the front. Behind the lion, there is a large circle with a sun in the middle, surrounded by stars, and then surrounded by zodiac symbols. At the top is the word "Tarocchi", with a sun on the left side and a moon on the right.

On the back of the box is a picture of the card backs: the winged lion in the center, surrounded by a gold ring with zodiac symbols. There is a golden sun in one corner, and a moon surrounded with black in the opposite corner. There are black "M"s and gold "S"s taking up the remaining space.

The booklet is red and in Italian; the title is "Il Destino Svelato dal Tarocco" and the name at the top is Docteur Marius.

There are two extra cards: one says "Modiano Cartomanzia 184" and the other is "Caratteristiche Generali dei Segni Zodiacali".

In a discussion at AT, it was mentioned that the number on the 78th card might provide a clue as to how old the deck is, but no one knew the actual significance of those numbers.

My question is: does anyone here recognize the edition I have described here, and/or do you know anything about the number on the 78th card?

Thanks in advance for your help!

:hp Luna

Last edited on Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 01:37 am by lunakasha

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 Posted: Mon Jun 1st, 2009 09:10 pm
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gregory
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In the thread on AT I think most of us reckoned that the numbers were to identify print runs, and sort of random - in that they are in no particular order..... It sounds like one of mine with a different box, though my Italian LWB is beige...

Can you post pix of your box ? WANNA SEE !

Last edited on Mon Jun 1st, 2009 09:11 pm by gregory

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 Posted: Mon Jun 1st, 2009 09:21 pm
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lunakasha
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Here ya go, gregory!






:kt

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 Posted: Mon Jun 1st, 2009 09:24 pm
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lunakasha
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I hope it is OK to post attachments; if not, I will provide a link instead.

Please let me know if links are preferred....thanks!

:hpLuna

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 Posted: Mon Jun 1st, 2009 09:33 pm
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gregory
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WOW. I am JEALOUS of that box ! (And everyone else has attachments, so why not you ??)

The backs are quite different from all the others we discussed on AT, too.

That is a REALLY nice box..... the others are dull by comparison.

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 Posted: Mon Jun 1st, 2009 09:50 pm
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lunakasha
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gregory wrote: WOW. I am JEALOUS of that box ! (And everyone else has attachments, so why not you ??)

The backs are quite different from all the others we discussed on AT, too.

That is a REALLY nice box..... the others are dull by comparison.

Thanks....I do love that box! :ro

I am curious to know if anyone here has a deck with this box and card backs.

I also emailed Jeannette to see if she can help....maybe I should send her some pics too?


Last edited on Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 01:36 am by lunakasha

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 Posted: Tue Jun 2nd, 2009 03:24 pm
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lunakasha
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Does this deck look familiar to anyone???

Help please....:f

~Luna

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 Posted: Fri Jun 5th, 2009 08:03 pm
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lunakasha
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lunakasha wrote: Does this deck look familiar to anyone???

Help please....:f

~Luna

Wow....no one has seen this deck??? :ee

If any of you can help, I would really appreciate it....thanks.

:ro Luna

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 Posted: Sat Jun 6th, 2009 12:24 pm
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Demian Brennan-Gould
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Hello! Yes, I have one of the "Docteur Marius" editions. Same box, different cover on LWB (which is in English). I have 1981 on the LWB, nothing anywhere else... Card 78 has blue numbers: 0055

Attachment: Doctuer Marius 1981 edition 001.jpg (Downloaded 201 times)

Last edited on Sat Jun 6th, 2009 12:44 pm by Demian Brennan-Gould

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 Posted: Sat Jun 6th, 2009 04:13 pm
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lunakasha
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Demian Brennan-Gould wrote: Hello! Yes, I have one of the "Docteur Marius" editions. Same box, different cover on LWB (which is in English). I have 1981 on the LWB, nothing anywhere else... Card 78 has blue numbers: 0055

Thanks for posting, Demian Brennan-Gould!

Yes, the card backs on mine are the same as yours, and mine also has number 0055 on the 78th card.  But my booklet has a red cover and no date....so they are similar, yet different.  :? LOL....apparently there were MANY different versions of this deck.

:cool: Luna

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 Posted: Sat Jun 6th, 2009 07:59 pm
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lunakasha
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I just noticed that your cards are in English....mine are in Italian! :cl

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 Posted: Sat Jun 6th, 2009 09:08 pm
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Demian Brennan-Gould
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Re: Cagliostro Tarot 184  published 1975 by Graphic Arts, Modiano, Trieste, Italy from original Egyptian-style design 1912 by Bruno Sigon, and with instructions by Docteur Marius in an 80 page booklet titled “Destiny Revealed by the Tarot”
 
In my English LWB there is mention of "fenidic transmissions" on page 6 third paragraph. I found this elsewhere in Italian as "fenidica" but it was no help in trying to figure out what the heck a fenidic transmission could be, nor was an exhaustive Google search.
 
Docteur Marius is famous for his 52 card Suits of Love available as La Vera Sibilla.

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 Posted: Sat Jun 6th, 2009 11:42 pm
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gregory
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Yes, Demian – but there are MANY versions of this deck – there is a LONG thread on AT. This BOX is one that hasn’t featured on ANY of them. Luna has been there too !

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 Posted: Sun Jun 7th, 2009 03:33 am
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Demian Brennan-Gould
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gregory wrote: Yes, Demian – but there are MANY versions of this deck – there is a LONG thread on AT. This BOX is one that hasn’t featured on ANY of them. Luna has been there too !

Hi! I have the Red backs, Blue backs, current Cartomanzia Modiano backs, and this.

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 Posted: Sun Jun 7th, 2009 05:17 pm
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gregory
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Ah - so. I have three, with similar but various boxes and the LWB every which way.

You have THAT box ? Lucky you.

And I have no blue backs :f. (As I recall....)

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 Posted: Wed Jun 10th, 2009 01:34 am
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Sumada
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Hi All,

May I join in here? I have two Cartomanzia 184 decks by Modiano that I'd like to know more about, and this seemed to be the best place, rather than starting another post.

The blue clam-shell box copy has no date that I can find, but I would like to know if the "1960", on the Ace of Coins from the other copy, is the actual date of publication?

If you tilt both the Aces to the light, it is very obvious that the tax stamps are overprinted with a matte finish ink, and the "1960" is the same colour and matte also, so presumably printed at the same time as Hermes head in the centre. (just a pity they got it upsidedown!)

It is interesting to note that not all of the divinatory meanings printed on the cards are are identicle between decks. And on the Aces of Coins (see below) they even exchanged the upright and reversed meanings!

So if anyone can give me any info on these decks I would be most appreciative.
One thing I really do like about these copies is that there is no mention of Cagliostro anywhere, and I just wonder who's idea that was and why...?

Cheers Sumada

Attachment: Cartomanzia 184A.jpg (Downloaded 156 times)

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 Posted: Wed Jun 10th, 2009 01:36 am
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Sumada
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is there any way to attach more than one image at a time?

Attachment: Cartomanzia 184B.jpg (Downloaded 152 times)

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 Posted: Wed Jun 10th, 2009 01:39 am
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Sumada
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... and finally the Aces of Coins, the smaller card comes from the blue box.

Attachment: Aces of Coins.jpg (Downloaded 152 times)

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 Posted: Fri Jun 12th, 2009 10:56 am
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lulukat
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Wow, looks like I have version with the ugliest packaging for this deck ever made...
the one that looks like a bag of potato chips... you know...

For the "Hall Of Shame".

Would make a nice thread!

Attachment: !BTtGwiQCGk~$(KGrHgoH-EYEjlLly8E)BKJ2lSv!NQ~~_1.JPG (Downloaded 130 times)

Last edited on Fri Jun 12th, 2009 11:00 am by lulukat

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 Posted: Fri Jun 12th, 2009 01:57 pm
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gregory
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I have that one, among others. I am fond of it.

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 Posted: Fri Jun 12th, 2009 02:37 pm
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palestrina
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There are black "M"s and gold "S"s taking up the remaining space"
MS is the name of  italian cigarettes... M black and S gold or Red : this deck is an advertising gift...
The first MS cigarettes are 1969... I think.

Attachment: ms.jpg (Downloaded 119 times)

Last edited on Fri Jun 12th, 2009 02:37 pm by palestrina

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 Posted: Fri Jun 12th, 2009 02:56 pm
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Demian Brennan-Gould
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Merci, palestrina!
 
A sign of how "times are changing" in the collector's world
might be what I paid for my (now rare) Cagliostro Tarots:
 
Red back deck $6.05 June 2005
Blue back deck $4.29 May 2006
MS back deck $8.05 January 2007
 
We may never see prices like these again... and nowadays,
postage costs have risen so much it's all getting expensive.

*

MS Messis Summa cigarettes... il fumo uccide = smoking kills

Attachment: Ms_messis_summa_chiare_ks_20_h_italy.jpg (Downloaded 115 times)

Last edited on Fri Jun 12th, 2009 03:19 pm by Demian Brennan-Gould

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 Posted: Fri Jun 12th, 2009 08:44 pm
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lulukat
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What do those blue numbers on card 78 mean?

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 Posted: Fri Jun 12th, 2009 09:06 pm
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lulukat
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gregory wrote:
Yes, Demian – but there are MANY versions of this deck – there is a LONG thread on AT. This BOX is one that hasn’t featured on ANY of them. Luna has been there too !


Where can i find this thread?

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 Posted: Fri Jun 12th, 2009 09:08 pm
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lulukat
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Demian Brennan-Gould wrote:

 
Docteur Marius is famous for his 52 card Suits of Love available as La Vera Sibilla.


May it be a game called Le Corti D'Amore by Mondiano?

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 Posted: Sat Jun 13th, 2009 01:51 am
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Demian Brennan-Gould
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lulukat wrote: Demian Brennan-Gould wrote:

 
Docteur Marius is famous for his 52 card Suits of Love available as La Vera Sibilla.


May it be a game called Le Corti D'Amore by Mondiano?



Possibly Le Corti D'Amore by Mondiano but... it may be possible to but it cheap.

La Vera Sibilla is available at Alibris (use $1 off coupon code) and it is the cards,

but the REAL book will likely remain forever in Italian, though it's fine with me...

Docteur Marius is "wacky" in a pleasantly old fashioned way, but vacca sacra!

*

Coupons - codeword to enter: JACK

http://www.couponchief.com/alibris

JACK is good until this July 2nd for $1 off.

Last edited on Sat Jun 13th, 2009 01:54 am by Demian Brennan-Gould

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 Posted: Sat Jun 13th, 2009 02:52 pm
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lunakasha
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palestrina wrote: There are black "M"s and gold "S"s taking up the remaining space"
MS is the name of  italian cigarettes... M black and S gold or Red : this deck is an advertising gift...
The first MS cigarettes are 1969... I think.

Thank you, palestrina!  :ce

This might explain why there are apparently not many decks with this particular design on the backs or box, compared with others I've seen or heard about so far.

Do you have any more information on these, such as the date they came out or the number of decks published as a promotional gift???

Thanks again....I really appreciate your help.

:hp Luna

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 Posted: Mon Jun 15th, 2009 08:11 am
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palestrina
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Hello,
I have no more information about this deck and it is the first time I see it. The box design seems to be circa 1980.
It is not rare in Italy to have tarot as gift... some with a really great number of copies (Tarocco indovino-for the newspaper La Republica) some with a little number of copies, but in this case they are usually numbered... Perhaps somebody know more about.

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 Posted: Fri Jun 19th, 2009 03:09 pm
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palestrina
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Sumada a écrit:

The blue clam-shell box copy has no date that I can find, but I would like to know if the "1960", on the Ace of Coins from the other copy, is the actual date of publication?

if the tax stamp is this one... 1943 or 1944 or 1945 or 1946.
This blue box is the older edition I have seen.

I have find in my little collection 2 cartomanzia
- the "ugly box edition"
- one with red box (cards are the same of 1960 edition) but on mine no stamp and no date... perhaps made for foreign countries (but a stamp for foreign country exist in Italy). No LWB.


On the back of the box

Cartomanzia
LUSSO = luxury
N° 184 = the catalog number surely

Voilà, voilà.

Attachment: st-i13.jpg (Downloaded 54 times)

Last edited on Fri Jun 19th, 2009 03:32 pm by palestrina

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