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Sinister Tarot....
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 Posted: Tue Feb 23rd, 2010 09:28 pm
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Lex Talionis
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I remember a time i looked for it but never found one..... now ill start the search again to see if i can find one if u guys know where to find please tell! shemhamforash!

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 Posted: Wed Feb 24th, 2010 07:52 am
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Mr. la-luna
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Lex Talionis wrote: I remember a time i looked for it but never found one..... now ill start the search again to see if i can find one if u guys know where to find please tell! shemhamforash!

There is one on eBay number 160404410252

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 Posted: Wed Feb 24th, 2010 08:03 am
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papoon
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Boy, there sure are a lot of (expensive) unnumbered copies showing up lately. Not suspicious in the least. Not at all.

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 Posted: Wed Feb 24th, 2010 11:33 am
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Lex Talionis
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Woot! 330$ dang you guys think s a good price?

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 Posted: Wed Feb 24th, 2010 12:02 pm
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Mr. la-luna
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papoon wrote: Boy, there sure are a lot of (expensive) unnumbered copies showing up lately. Not suspicious in the least. Not at all.
i wonder how many there are "in circulation" out there...
There where officially 40 made, and 5 are in members here collection (according to their collection thread here (Gregory, Lulukat, papoon, truelight and me) (and also Adam has one i think to remember) .

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 Posted: Wed Feb 24th, 2010 12:15 pm
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gregory
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Yes - Adam has indeed.

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 Posted: Wed Feb 24th, 2010 12:20 pm
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Lex Talionis
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I contacted the guy he says it has no number and hell sell it to me for 300$ what do you think guys?

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 Posted: Wed Feb 24th, 2010 12:24 pm
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AdamMcLean
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I bought my copy  for £60.00 GBP  ($100)  in March 2007 from a bookshop in the UK.
I suppose that a genuine copy of the edition of 40 could now have appreciated in value to $300, but one should beware of the possibility of a pirated copy. Would a pirated copy realistically have this value?

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 Posted: Wed Feb 24th, 2010 12:30 pm
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Lex Talionis
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i think ill let it pass, ill keep looking for one that if i can find one...  :( also there are 21 or 22 cards in that deck i mean the one the guy s selling

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 Posted: Wed Feb 24th, 2010 05:19 pm
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CastleCrest
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Seller sure does have a nice collection of rare occult books for sale!

I have an Un'numbered set - wrapped in black paper & has a LBB (little black book)

There are 21 cards in the deck.

Last edited on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 05:26 pm by CastleCrest

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 Posted: Wed Feb 24th, 2010 05:26 pm
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Seeker*13*
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This Deck is so high on my Wish-List! But I don't think I would spend that much for it.

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 Posted: Wed Feb 24th, 2010 05:41 pm
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AdamMcLean
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My deck is original, as it was bought while the edition was still available for sale.

The cards are printed onto a very thin stock - a seemingly glossy or semi-gloss double sided surfaced paper.

It would not be too great a problem for someone to print these for a pirate edition, using a laser printer, though it might be difficult for them to find that particular glossy stock. Because of the glossy surface, I suspect scanning from an original copy might produce some artefacts and consequently poor quality prints.

The main problem for a pirate would be in sourcing the box. This is somewhat larger than the cards and has an insert with cut out slots suggesting its true use might have been for jewelry (perhaps a necklace). I suspect it could be difficult to buy boxes indistinguishable from the ones in which the genuine edition was supplied.

There are indeed only 21 cards in the deck.

Last edited on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 05:43 pm by AdamMcLean

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 Posted: Wed Feb 24th, 2010 06:03 pm
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papoon
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What Adam said. It's worth noting that all these unnumbered copies without boxes only started showing up after the image files were briefly available on lulu.com. Could be a coincidence. But then again, maybe not.

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 Posted: Wed Feb 24th, 2010 08:59 pm
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lulukat
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papoon wrote:
What Adam said. It's worth noting that all these unnumbered copies without boxes only started showing up after the image files were briefly available on lulu.com. Could be a coincidence. But then again, maybe not.

I honestly think that there are more in circulation than 40. The person I got my copy from, which had no number, bought it at ixxaar (not sure if the spelling is right).
I'd like to contact them actually, and ask about it.

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 Posted: Fri Feb 26th, 2010 12:59 am
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Lex Talionis
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I contacted a site that sells them and they told me this


I have three different version of The Sinister Tarot in my personal collection but I have never seen in my life The Sinister Tarot with serial number. This deck is good quality deck with colour cards and instructive booklet for their use unlike in some other versions.


what do u think guys should i buy or not from them.
 

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 Posted: Fri Feb 26th, 2010 09:53 am
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gregory
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Buy whatever you want. Whether there really were only 40 we shall never know. Mine is numbered. It was pre the lulu link. Sooooo....

Draw your own conclusions; I have.

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 Posted: Fri Feb 26th, 2010 11:47 am
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lulukat
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Lex Talionis wrote:
I contacted a site that sells them and they told me this


I have three different version of The Sinister Tarot in my personal collection but I have never seen in my life The Sinister Tarot with serial number. This deck is good quality deck with colour cards and instructive booklet for their use unlike in some other versions.


what do u think guys should i buy or not from them.
 



I would love to see a link to that site - I have also contacted Ixaxaar about the unnumbered editions, I bought my Sinister deck from someone who claimed having bought it there also, therefore they should know about the unnumbered decks.

There was also never mentioning of any numbered decks on the Ixaxaar website, which makes it even more confusing.

I do have Richard Moult's contact info but it would be rude to ask him personally, he is no longer with the ONA.

I personally think it's difficult for me to believe that, where the Sinister originally came from, is a reliable source where numbers are taken seriously.

Think about it ... it makes more sense to me that the original source was not 100% kosher, than assuming that masses of Sinister decks are being distributed by dishonest people. It is well known in the ONA- related community that the files were available on Lulu.com, who would they be making bootlegs for? Since everyone know about those files floating around, I don't see why someone would bother producing fake decks, if chances were very slim that anyone would buy it.

Hopefully Ixaxaar will respond.

I simply don't accept the assumption that, only because 40 people have a numbered set, all others have fakes. To me the most logic explanation is that they made a few hundred of these decks and some point were sold or distributed to certain people under the radar.

Last edited on Fri Feb 26th, 2010 11:54 am by lulukat

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 Posted: Fri Feb 26th, 2010 12:24 pm
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AdamMcLean
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lulukat wrote:
it makes more sense to me that the original source was not 100% kosher,

I simply don't accept the assumption that, only because 40 people have a numbered set, all others have fakes. To me the most logic explanation is that they made a few hundred of these decks and some point were sold or distributed to certain people under the radar.


My experience when buying the original deck was

I wrote to Ixaxaar in March 2007 requesting to buy a copy.

They immediately replied saying the edition was now sold out,
but they thought that an esoteric/magic bookseller in the UK might
still have some copies.

I wrote to the bookseller and was able to buy a copy. I asked him
if he might have some more copies as some fellow collectors I knew might
wish one. He then (late March 2007) said  that he had three copies left.

I passed on his email address to some fellow collectors and I think he will have
sold these three copies within a short period.

By late April I was receiving notices from people I had told about
this tarot that it was now sold out and they were hoping I might be able
to put them in touch with someone else selling them.

From that time on I continued to get requests for information about this
tarot. One person was so insistant that he asked me to name my price for
me to sell him my own copy.

I heard nothing about further copies being available until quite recently.
So there would appear to be at least a two year gap between the
original suppliers of the deck selling out and this appearance of
more copies.

As a few collectors on the forum hold copies of one of the original
set issued, if someone were to send us a card from the recently
appearing copies, I am sure one could easily see if it were printed
in the same way.

Last edited on Fri Feb 26th, 2010 12:28 pm by AdamMcLean

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 Posted: Fri Feb 26th, 2010 12:48 pm
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gregory
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Yes. I was one of those three who got one of the remaining decks.

And the book seller seemed certain that the edition was genuinely limited - and he is a serious antiquarian and rare dealer.

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 Posted: Fri Feb 26th, 2010 02:36 pm
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CastleCrest
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AdamMcLean wrote: lulukat wrote:
it makes more sense to me that the original source was not 100% kosher,

I simply don't accept the assumption that, only because 40 people have a numbered set, all others have fakes. To me the most logic explanation is that they made a few hundred of these decks and some point were sold or distributed to certain people under the radar.


My experience when buying the original deck was

I wrote to Ixaxaar in March 2007 requesting to buy a copy.

They immediately replied saying the edition was now sold out,
but they thought that an esoteric/magic bookseller in the UK might
still have some copies.

I wrote to the bookseller and was able to buy a copy. I asked him
if he might have some more copies as some fellow collectors I knew might
wish one. He then (late March 2007) said  that he had three copies left.

I passed on his email address to some fellow collectors and I think he will have
sold these three copies within a short period.

By late April I was receiving notices from people I had told about
this tarot that it was now sold out and they were hoping I might be able
to put them in touch with someone else selling them.

From that time on I continued to get requests for information about this
tarot. One person was so insistant that he asked me to name my price for
me to sell him my own copy.

I heard nothing about further copies being available until quite recently.
So there would appear to be at least a two year gap between the
original suppliers of the deck selling out and this appearance of
more copies.

As a few collectors on the forum hold copies of one of the original
set issued, if someone were to send us a card from the recently
appearing copies, I am sure one could easily see if it were printed
in the same way.



 

 

I'd be willing to ship a card out -

Of course I'd want to get it back!

I am in the middle of a snow storm today & have  a busy weekend coming up.

SO PM me your snailing info & l'll ship (the whole deck if you want to see it)

& we can go from there. 
(Or email me CastleCrest(at)Gmail.com
I'd send this to Adam or Gregory - any member of Adam's choice!

It can go out Monday (maybe tomorrow) morning some form of express mail.

Thanks,

CC

 

Last edited on Fri Feb 26th, 2010 02:37 pm by CastleCrest

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 Posted: Fri Feb 26th, 2010 02:53 pm
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AdamMcLean
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CastleCrest wrote:I'd be willing to ship a card out -

Before you go to such a bother you could just make a quick check.

The cards I have are printed onto a glossy (probably resin coated) rather thin paper stock. The cards have a slight curl on them towards the face side, probably because the original paper used was from a tight roll.

If you sit in front of the reasonably bright light source and hold the card almost horizontal in the light, then tip it up slightly towards you, look for a shiney surface in the areas that are not heavy with printed image. Thus on the 0 card you can clearly see this shineyness on the forehead, lower face and hands of the figure, while the rest of the image appears more matt.

With the II High Priestess this shineyness is very marked on her body and other parts of the image.

If the image is more flat and an overall matt, it would seem that it has been printed using a different stock.

Last edited on Fri Feb 26th, 2010 02:54 pm by AdamMcLean

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 Posted: Fri Feb 26th, 2010 03:04 pm
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CastleCrest
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I'll do that when I get a chace - not sure my day is looking busy!

The cards I have are glossy on both fronts & backs!

I will check the cards you have posted info about tonight or tomorrow.

Thanks,

CC

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 Posted: Fri Feb 26th, 2010 09:16 pm
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forkissima
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Lex Talionis wrote: I contacted the guy he says it has no number and hell sell it to me for 300$ what do you think guys?

I think that you should let it pass, probably the person who acquired it also got it from ixaxaar.com and you can order it for 80 euros, even if it is not a numbered set it's highly likely that the edition is limited and then I'd say the price is ok (unless, of course someone would produce fake decks based upon the lulu.com files but just like lulukat says, the number of people who would shell out around $300 for a deck are limited and though I have no clue what it costs to produce decks, somehow I fail to see the huge profit to gain on this venture).

To purchase, as the site is a bit tricky, go to http://www.ixaxaar.com click on Satanism, click on the "80 euros" after the description then on top click on "your order", set your region, pay by PayPal and look for it in the mail :ro

Last edited on Fri Feb 26th, 2010 09:16 pm by forkissima

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 Posted: Fri Feb 26th, 2010 11:00 pm
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papoon
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forkissima wrote:
I think that you should let it pass, probably the person who acquired it also got it from ixaxaar.com and you can order it for 80 euros
Thanks, this is interesting info. Back some months ago when these new decks started showing up, I went to the Ixaxaar site, and at that time there was no mention of the deck. So this new availability of it from them is fairly recent. It will be interesting to see if they are willing to provide information on the source of these new decks. As Adam mentioned, back when the first edition came out, they were quite emphatic about there not being any more.

As to the possibility that someone has financial motivation to print from the lulu files, the first of the new decks that I saw on ebay had a $115 BIN price and sold almost instantly. More recently, I saw one sell for $250. Now this latest is listed for $330. Clearly, it would be possible for someone to get the idea that there was indeed a ready market for expensive copies.

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 Posted: Sat Feb 27th, 2010 07:24 am
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forkissima
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These decks were already available on the website last summer (I found them through google when I was searching for various interesting decks) but I paid no attention to it as I'm a new collector and back then I knew nothing about the story behind the deck. It seemed that there were various ONA decks and back then I focused on other decks. Then when the story started to unfold I went back but the site was closed for about 2 months in October and November.

So I think it's probably a reissue but many people out there don't know about it yet or don't know enough (i.e. that pay only so much for a deck if it is clearly numbered) and think that it's a rare opportunity. But of course everyone does whatever they want with their money. If, and only if, this deck is a reissue, then it might be that the value of any decks, numbered or not is actually not that high at all, what do you think? In my very limited experience, Ebay often has very inflated prices. All rare decks that I acquired I found at least half but more often for one third or one fourth of the price that it was offered on Ebay. The decks offered on Ebay now look like they come from ixaxaar in this case the seller most probably knows what he or she is doing and uses the fact that most people have limited information available to make money. But that does not mean that ixaxaar is the seller on Ebay, it's probably someone who bought x number of copies and tries to make money by selling it for three times than what it's worth.

Last edited on Sat Feb 27th, 2010 07:25 am by forkissima

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 Posted: Sat Feb 27th, 2010 07:15 pm
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lulukat
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Mystery solved, Ixaxaar replied - like I said, these weren't bootlegs. The simple answer .... THE DECKS ARE FOR SALE AGAIN! LOL.

Greetings,

The Sinister Tarot which came with a box, they were all handnumbered copies. The deck that we have available now, it does not come with a box neither there is numbering.

IXAXAAR

Now get your copy, people. And it's definitely the real deal!

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 Posted: Wed Mar 3rd, 2010 12:23 am
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Lex Talionis
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Lulu much thanks for the info! :)

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 Posted: Thu Mar 4th, 2010 02:35 pm
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Seeker*13*
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:ceYay! My B-day pressie is secured!
Thank you so much!  I am so Happy!

Last edited on Thu Mar 4th, 2010 02:38 pm by Seeker*13*

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 Posted: Sun Mar 14th, 2010 11:31 pm
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forkissima
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Does anyone have the new issue of the deck from Ixaxaar already? I noticed that compared to the scans of the deck available here http://arcanaxv.multiply.com/photos/album/52/Sinister_Tarot card X is different and also here some of the minor arcana cards are shown that are not in my deck.

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 Posted: Mon Mar 15th, 2010 04:04 pm
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Seeker*13*
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I did receive my Deck, but I can't open it until Aprilfoolsday. So please don't make me open it now. LOL! I will let you know as soon as I opened it.

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 Posted: Mon Mar 15th, 2010 05:50 pm
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CastleCrest
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I'll try to remember to get my deck out.

I packed it away in the library.

Everytime I go upstairs I space on getting it out.

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 Posted: Mon Mar 15th, 2010 08:09 pm
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CastleCrest
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My number 10 is different than the one in the link.

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 Posted: Wed Mar 2nd, 2011 01:15 am
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sinister101
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Sets of the Naos Deck Sinister Tarot are available again after a decision to re-print.

ISS,

RA

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 Posted: Wed Mar 2nd, 2011 10:59 am
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alice
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http://www.ilreamedinverno.com/carte-tarocchi-sibille/the-sinister-tarot-christos-beest-/-order-of-nine-angles.asp

I have asked to this booker and he too has bought the decks is selling by Ixaxaar

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 Posted: Wed Mar 2nd, 2011 11:01 am
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gregory
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Can we please have a separate thread for the NAOS deck so that no-one gets confused ?

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 Posted: Wed Mar 2nd, 2011 11:13 am
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alice
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Yes you are right, Reame d'inverno sells only sinister tarot by Christos beest

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